THE PACK Message Boards

White Paw wrote:WELL.....what if the bitten was some scrawny little geeky human ....when bitten would he be a scrawney little werewolf or would he gain some consideralbe strength and body size..

what fun would being a werewolf be if you didn't get much bigger and stronger. Or do you mean in relation to other werewolves of the same type?

The question always remains, where does the mass come from? Then again if the werewolf is more "furre" like then this could simply be a toneing and expansion of muscle mass and bone density which would actually take a lot less energy and matter to acomplish rather than the giant werewolf from a little guy like An American Werewolf in Paris would have us believe (which looked like werebears anyway)

See you don't actaully gain muscle cells, rather they expand and increase in flexibility or density. Growing new ones and expanding those would actually take less effort than you might think especially when they are combined with the ones already there.

Note: one doesn't "gain" muscle. All the muscles in the body that one needs to be a viable organism are present at birth. Muscles develop. The more stress one puts on them, the thicker the fibres grow. How large they grow depends on how much weight the bone and ligament structure can take; if you have a small skeleton then obviously, no matter how much you work out and how many protein shakes you down, you're going to get to a point and then your body will either stop at that threshold or malfunction.

I know this because my horse is having a problem like that. He grew so big so fast that his muscles outstripped his joints so he goes snap-crackle-pop when he bends his knees.

Okay, say you have two werewolves shifting to Gestalt. One has a frame like Glenn Danzig, the other has a frame like Peter Steele. They both have a muscle load (muscle being denser and heavier than fat) on their skeletons and follow a similar workout and diet strategy. Glenn will STILL be smaller than Peter, because he has a smaller frame. He *could* drink more protein shakes and lift heavier weights for longer to bulk up his human form muscles so his Gestalt muscles will be that much bigger, but his joints, like Tagie's, will wind up going snap-crackle-pop and hurt like hell.

I think they ought to have what they could do as a mhuman. Keep in mid: the ore flexible your spine is, the harder it is to lift straight up. Also digitigrade means you can't lock your knees (i think) which means your legs are goign to be taking effort to keep in place.

They balance the unlockability by acting as shock absorbers, and as a side-benefit, stride-enhancers.

I should note that quadrupedal digitigrade animals *can* lock their knees. Horses and giraffes do. Note that elephants are digitigrade, too.

Kzinistzerg wrote:I think they ought to have what they could do as a mhuman. Keep in mid: the ore flexible your spine is, the harder it is to lift straight up. Also digitigrade means you can't lock your knees (i think) which means your legs are goign to be taking effort to keep in place.

On the other hand, they'll be less succeptable to passing out because their knees were locked.

Digitride legs on a biped should have little problem holding something heavy once it is above their head and their legs can then take the effort off their spine which being able to go between quadraped and biped is designed for speed and thus illsuited for too much strain by holding objects in front of them. Which given their shape may be more of a strain than it is for a human holding the same relative weight.

Basically the digitride stance would seem best suited for speed and quikly lifting and throwing but not carrying around boxes or something at chest level. Maybe if we gave the werewolf one of those special spinal belts they would have an easier time at that.

I think they can lift a car but can't throw one.

It would depend if they work out. Yeah, werewolves in a gym class.

I-COULD-SEE-IF-HE-WAS-RUNNING-AT-THE-CAR-FULL-SPEED-AND-FLIP-IT-BUT-IDONT-SEE-HIM-LIFTING-IT

GENSI wrote:I-COULD-SEE-IF-HE-WAS-RUNNING-AT-THE-CAR-FULL-SPEED-AND-FLIP-IT-BUT-IDONT-SEE-HIM-LIFTING-IT

WHY-RUN-AT-THE-CAR-FULL-SPEED-WHEN-HE-COULD-[s]THUMB[/s]-DEWCLAW-FOR-A-RIDE.

Its easier to "catch a lift" then to "lift the [s]car[/s] ride."



Heh...silly me.

Figarou wrote:

GENSI wrote:I-COULD-SEE-IF-HE-WAS-RUNNING-AT-THE-CAR-FULL-SPEED-AND-FLIP-IT-BUT-IDONT-SEE-HIM-LIFTING-IT

WHY-RUN-AT-THE-CAR-FULL-SPEED-WHEN-HE-COULD-[s]THUMB[/s]-DEWCLAW-FOR-A-RIDE.

Its easier to "catch a lift" then to "lift the [s]car[/s] ride."



Heh...silly me.

The werewolves could have much more strength than in it human form by shutting off the production of myostatin proteins during transformation.

Actually, there is only a proven correllation between myostatin deficiency and muscle growth. Nobody has been able to prove it as being a cause, nor do they know exactly why the correlation exists. The only lab tests done so far have been very preliminary and were restricted only to rodents.

Yes we have it now been seen at work in a human being.

I think you're getting your information from those crazy web-ads. There's a few rather disreputable organizations marketing "myostatin-blocker" dietary supplements. They base their claims on some preliminary research that myostatin deficiency is correllated with unusually extensive muscle growth (in cattle, incidentally). There is a slight correllation between myostatin deficiency and increased muscular development in humans, but nothing even remotely conclusive. The medical community is looking at this as a possible cure for certain ailments, most notably muscle atrophy in geriatric patients. However, the myostatin-blocker ads are completely bogus. Don't believe them. It's people out to make a quick buck, and dash. (And if you know anybody who's thinking about actually buying this stuff, keep in mind that if you get really lucky, whatever you receive will be merely a placebo and won't actually be harmful -- When buying stuff on the internet, buyer beware).

When buying stuff on the internet the buyer ususally gets screwed over.

Look, if you don't ahev any increas ein madd you;re not goign to get a scrawny guy suddenly turn into arnold schwarsenneger, beucas there's that issue fo mass that has to come form somewhere!

Why not toss a car i mean there have been cases were even wemen has lifted cars off of her husbans that was traped under it. I mean the transformation would be a increase of muscle mass and strenth by like 5 fold . I dont want to move buses and play with it like super man but i would like to pick up the back of one or be so mad that i would push it over when im in my full werewolf form.

howlbigbadwolf wrote:I dont want to move buses and play with it like super man but i would like to pick up the back of one or be so mad that i would push it over when im in my full werewolf form.

That sounds perfectly reasonable. Lifting one end and fliping it over hard is something I think even a weaker Werewolf could do, given the right motivation.

...heck...I wonder If I could even do that NOW.


Where I draw the line is standing there with it balancing on thier paws over thier head and throwing it across the street. That's "SuperMan" Territory.

(A shot of the scene where he is holding the Mustang would have been Ideal, but I just couldn't find it)

The difference between the strength needed to stand on one end and lift a car upward, and the outragious power needed to balance one over ones head the way superman is doing with this debris is extreme.

Actually "tossing" one seems completely out of the question to me...but "Lifting", with appropriate difficulty, would make sense, IMHO.

I thought of another way to test strength. After all cars can vary alot in size and weight. and weight lifting may test that one thing, but not necisarily how tough a werewolf is.

Think in this way for strength. What is the largest, or meanist animal you can picture a werewolf easily winning a fight against, or one it could barely beat? A lion can't lift a car, but can your werewolf win a fight with a lion? kinda way of thinking.

ya I would kill anything that gets in my way lion, tiger, bears (SNARL) I DONT CARE (HOWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.......) well mabe not the hulk or the juggernaut b****....i dont want him to B*ich smack me. LOL

Rhuen wrote:I thought of another way to test strength. After all cars can vary alot in size and weight. and weight lifting may test that one thing, but not necisarily how tough a werewolf is.

Think in this way for strength. What is the largest, or meanist animal you can picture a werewolf easily winning a fight against, or one it could barely beat? A lion can't lift a car, but can your werewolf win a fight with a lion? kinda way of thinking.

I guess it really depends alot on the size and weight of the animal, and the size and weight of the human/werewolf as well.

Though I think even the smallest, scrawniest Human/Werewolf could take down the largest and toughest of Any Animal with the right strategy, cunning and skill (including bull elephants...which hunters do all the time). However, to just straight up overpower them and wrestle them to the ground, the two creatures would need to be similar in mass.

Comics and cartoons are very decieving in the way they show super-strong characters. The laws of Mass are usually ignored for dramatic effect. No matter how strong ones muscles may be, if they are considerably lighter than the object they are trying to move, pushing on it is going to do nothing but push that person back, rather than push the object forward. A lightweight creature, regardless of how strong, can usually be tossed around quite easily by something of far greater mass.

So, a 200 pound werewolf would have a really tough time trying to take down a 1,000 pound brown bear or Moose using brute force alone, even if it did have the super-strength to lift the creature off the ground with relative ease. All the bear would have to do is squirm in one dirrection or another and the werewolf would be helpless but to go flying in that dirrection with it. ...that's Mass and Momentum for you...

So it would really depend on the person and the creature, and how thier size and mass relate to each other.

I usually am more partial to Werewolves that are more comparable to Ferral wolves in thier size and strength (upscaled to match/exeed that of the human base), but if my 7-Foot tall, 275+ pound, Big-Boned History Professor/Archaeologist WereWolf character Jonas White is any indication, I am not foreign to the appeal of an occasional juggernaut character now and then.


...I would maybe say that He might be strong enough to lift a car over his head (but not throw it beyond dirrectly in front of him)...exept that he transforms into a massive quadraped only. No Hands.

So...maybe an 'Andre the Giant' type person, as a Gestalt Werewolf, might be able to toss a small car, and flip over Semi's and Busses...but probobly not the 'average' werewolf. IMHO

werewolfs_are_not_stupet_enogh_to_chalennge_everything_i_mean_youre_trying_to_make_him_like_super_man_

Uniform Two Six wrote:I would have to disagree a little bit. Yeah, the werewolf should be limited by its physical form. As Terastas noted however, ordinary humans are capable of fairly surprising feats of strength under extreme curcumstances. He used the example of a major adrenaline rush (at least that's how I interpreted it) but look at people who are dosed on Phenycylcidene (PCP). Such people are not generally possessed of Schwarzenegger physiques, yet have been documented snapping handcuffs and flipping over small cars. The down side (for them at any rate) is that they at the very least suffer major injuries as they overtax their bodies doing this stuff, and quite often die shortly thereafter from anyeruisms or cardiac failure. The reason ordinary human beings cannot generally summon up such feats of strength (correct me if I'm wrong Scott) is that it doesn't make much sense from an evolutionary perspective for a creature to be able to accidentally kill itself. Thus ordinary folks can't do this kind of thing without an extreme (life or death) circumstance generating an adrenaline release, or resorting to dangerous drugs. In other words, something to short-circut the body's safety mechanisms. If the werewolf has regenerative capabilities, it doesn't really need to worry about physical injury from overexertion since any such injuries will be quickly healed. It would be believable to have a werewolf with the ability to voluntarily enter a state that would provide extreme strength (voluntary release of massive amounts of adrenaline, for instance), since overexertion is not life-threatening, as it would be to an ordinary human. I think werewolves should have the strength of a human of similar size and muscle mass if that human were on PCP. That makes sense to me.

dude_this_is_how_a_werewolf_would_look_on_pcp