THE PACK Message Boards

Vuldari wrote:Even Wild wolves that appear to be nearly solid black, white, redish brown or grey actually have hairs of varying colors in their fur, but I agree. Any colors or patterns (even flat, solid color ones) that appear in nature, I would have no problem with seeing on a werwolf.

Oh yes, I know, I just said 'one color' for simplicity. Due to the photogaphy in the movie, unless we're getting an extra close shot of the wolf's fur under fairly strong lighting conditions, it would appear to be all one color.

Edit: Spelling.

The Fur color question thread has been merged with Fur color.

Reigning Fyre wrote:M'kay...here's what I don't understand, and I'm just a n00b, sorry for this. If a person had unnatural highlights put into their hair, and then became their wolf, would the wolf have that hair color? That'd look mighty odd......

Sort of. Anything unnatural like dye or gel would just be foreign material independent of the werewolf's genetic code, so there would be no reason for a shift from human to gestalt to correct it. On the other hand, there's a big difference between human hair and wolven headfur, so while dye or gel might remain on top of their head during a shift, it would look tacky in their gestalt form and even worse when back to human form. A human using hair dye would probably look like they took a paintball pellet on the noggin when in gestalt form.

Also, I know what you guys mean about finding odd-colored hairs in odd places. My biggest problem is my beard -- I like it because I haven't heard anyone say "excuse me Miss" since I grew it, but I keep having to shave the most prominant area -- from my chin to my lower lip, because it keeps growing in flaming red.

Still, I don't think there will be too many members of the audience that are so atentive to details that the FX team would need to take a microscope to every actor's chin to get the facts right. Just as long as the most prominent spots are a close enough match (head, eyebrows, and in Zane's case, his muzzle) to their gestalt form, that should be enough.

Besides, can you name one actress on the planet that would be willing to let the FX crew scan for backhairs, especially knowing that millions of Americans would know what color they were? (casting-called lady Pack members need not reply)

I agree and support the idea that unnatural hair color woul dshow on a gesltat ( even a wolf ) but it woul dlook outrageously silly.

That coul dbe a werewolf 'taboo'.., just cause it looks "stupid" to have a mass of blue or green or neon pink tinting the head-fur ends.

I also like the diea that anyone who does color their hair unnaturally ( even just straight bleacing it ) woul dhave to do it more offten, as it woul d"grow out" fatser.

There are some comics and tales stating that wereolves often grow their hait faster then nomral humans. I wish that was th ecase in my book. *pouts*

So maybe this is another reason why they don't it'd cost too much $$ to constantlly have it redone. ;) *chuckles*


As has been stated, I'd liek to support:

As for coats on the gestlat in the moive.There are goin gto be cloes ups. I am sure of that. Its good for drama. So you are goin gto see individual hairs.

Now the movie aduience isn't going to notice this right away, but teh effect of it would be far more natural looking an dless CG looking.

*points to teh other newere CG movies* Final Fantasy, Shrek and Dionsaur used underlying -vein- textures to give the appearence fo real skin. yOu wanna start statiung that people don't notice? There is a -subtle but visable difference between the non-detailed characters and the -detailed- characters.

One of the major classes I took for my degree was texture rendering and detail. It -does- make a big difference.

It may not be noticed by th emajor population, bu the lack of it makes the CG look.., fake.

Vuldari wrote:

Excelsia wrote:

Trinity wrote:( my fave hair color! though not my own ;) ).

I know how you feel! My hair's a decent color I guess, but way to dark for my taste. There's a girl that goes to school with me that has bright blonde/red hair. It's nice and straight too, with no frizzies. It annoys me that other people won the hair lottery and I didn't.

Yah sorry for getting off topic...

When you see someone with very nice looking smooth, straight hair of an eye-catching color (even natural-looking blondes, reds and blacks), there is a very good chance that persons hair is NOT naturally straight or that color. ...you can bet that girl has to spend alot of time and money to get her hair to look like that.

Oddly enough, she doesn't! Her hair has always been that shade. As far as getting it straight, she just uses a blowdryer, no straightener. And even when she doesn't blowdry it, it looks nice wavy. But yes, you are right, most people with hair like that would spend hours to get it that way. GGRRRR!!

Well at least I have a nice a**.

Reigning Fyre wrote:

Kavik wrote:You found a grey chest hair on your 15th B-Day?

Does it count when you put gray hair into your head? I dye my hair with silver/white blonde streaks...

I reckon you'd have to retreat your hair as a werewolf, unless as a werewolf you have these streaks naturally, and you like them so much you are artificially reproducing them when in human form.

What do you guys think someone with hair that naturally has two colors in it would look like (like the black w/white tips I had as a baby)? Had I kept that color and became a werewolf would I still have black and white hair? Or would it pick one color for my fur and not use the other? Maybe it would have black with white patches. I think that someone with hair like that would still keep both colors, and in my case might've given my gestalt and wolf forms a frosted look.

I would also like to add that I don't like the idea of the biting werewolf transferring their pelt color, for several reasons. For one, what if another werewolf bites you? Do the two pelt colors mix? Also, if biting is what transfers pelt color, how did the first werewolf get his/her pelt color? Also, since there was one werewolf in the beginning, it would seem logical that since he must have been the one to create more werewolves, that all subequent wolves would be the same color. Just to let you know before you reply to this, using an evolutionary argument against this statement would be incorrect because they didn't evolve. They are the product of viruses. Though the virus could have evolved, the overall effect would still be the same. For example, if the first was grey, and over time, the virus evolved to transmit black fur, all werewolves of said time period would be black.

Overall, I think it is much more logical and more audience friendly to simply make the human's hair color be the determiner of the fur color. Obviously, it wouldn't all be one solid color, unless every hair on a particular human's body was all the same color. An individual human body is covered in many different colors of hair, so making the wolf non-solid won't be a problem. In fact, my hair (just the hair on my head) has far more than one color. There are light blonde tips, dark gold hues, honey brown roots, reddish highlights and dark brown on the underside, the part that never gets any sun. Most people are probably similar to me in this respect, in that they have many different colors in their head hair. If the movie makers wanted to, they could base the wolf's pelt colors solely on the variety of different colors of hair in the head.

Anyway, there's my two cents. I am basing my opinions on my personal preferences and logic. Nobody is gonna watch this movie and then complain that it isn't scientifically accurate because "...in what universe would the fur of a werewolf's wolf or gestalt form be similar to the color of the human's hair?", because the kind of person who would be this nitpicky about scienific accuracy probably wouldn't watch a werewolf movie anyway. You can't really argue scientific facts about something that isn't real. You've got to come to a conclusion that is logical, and one that most audiences won't disagree with. IMO, making wolf fur color be based on human hair color is the best choice to satisfy all those requirements, besides having endless potential to be aesthetically pleasing.

Trinity wrote:As for coats on the gestlat in the moive.There are goin gto be cloes ups. I am sure of that. Its good for drama. So you are goin gto see individual hairs.

Now the movie aduience isn't going to notice this right away, but teh effect of it would be far more natural looking an dless CG looking.

*points to teh other newere CG movies* Final Fantasy, Shrek and Dionsaur used underlying -vein- textures to give the appearence fo real skin. yOu wanna start statiung that people don't notice? There is a -subtle but visable difference between the non-detailed characters and the -detailed- characters.

One of the major classes I took for my degree was texture rendering and detail. It -does- make a big difference.

It may not be noticed by th emajor population, bu the lack of it makes the CG look.., fake.

*nods* One of the supervisors of the first Shrek put it best when referring to the way they'd animated crops swaying in the wind: it's harder to notice the details than it is to notice the lack thereof.

Excelsia wrote: Though the virus could have evolved, the overall effect would still be the same. For example, if the first was grey, and over time, the virus evolved to transmit black fur, all werewolves of said time period would be black.

Well no, look at the common cold. There's at least a hundred different types of the common cold *right now*. If pelt color were transmitted by bite, there might be different stains of werewolf 'virus' going around.

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote: Though the virus could have evolved, the overall effect would still be the same. For example, if the first was grey, and over time, the virus evolved to transmit black fur, all werewolves of said time period would be black.

Well no, look at the common cold. There's at least a hundred different types of the common cold *right now*. If pelt color were transmitted by bite, there might be different stains of werewolf 'virus' going around.

Perhaps. But the common cold has a reason to mutate. We keep throwing medicine at it, so it keeps getting different. But the werewolf virus...well, do you think a werewolf is gonna go to the pharmacy and get antibiotics? So it would seem to me that since weres most likely haven't tried to use medicine on it, it wouldn't have had a reason to mutate. Why would a virus that works so well and faces no opposition mutate?

Same basic reason sharks haven't changed much since they first appeared. They got it right the first time.

Excelsia wrote:Perhaps. But the common cold has a reason to mutate. We keep throwing medicine at it, so it keeps getting different. But the werewolf virus...well, do you think a werewolf is gonna go to the pharmacy and get antibiotics? So it would seem to me that since weres most likely haven't tried to use medicine on it, it wouldn't have had a reason to mutate. Why would a virus that works so well and faces no opposition mutate?

Not really, they mutate all of the time. Copying [R|D]NA is a complex and involved process that is, like the life of a martial artist, fraught with peril. They would mutate even if we didn't use medicine on them. What we do by throwing meidicine at them is select the strains that are most resistant to that medicine.

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote:Perhaps. But the common cold has a reason to mutate. We keep throwing medicine at it, so it keeps getting different. But the werewolf virus...well, do you think a werewolf is gonna go to the pharmacy and get antibiotics? So it would seem to me that since weres most likely haven't tried to use medicine on it, it wouldn't have had a reason to mutate. Why would a virus that works so well and faces no opposition mutate?

No, they mutate all of the time. Copying [R|D]NA is a complex and involved process that is, like the life of a martial artist, fraught with peril. They would mutate even if we didn't use medicine on them. What we do by throwing meidicine at them is select the strains that are most resistant to that medicine.

Ok, but why would the code in the virus for fur color change? I can see why some minute detail would change, but I can't see why the symptoms would. Take your cold example. Sure, there may be hundreds of strands of common cold, but for the most part they all yield the same symptoms, i.e. runny nose etc. The werewolf's alternate forms are a 'symptom' of the virus. In most viruses (I said most) the symptoms stay pretty much the same, so I see no reason why the symptoms of the wolf virus wouldn't stay the same. Therefore I see no reason why fur color (as a symptom of the virus) would change.

Of course, I am aware that some viruses have mutated asymptomatic forms, in which the symptoms are most certainly different, i.e. not there. However, that is irrelevant to this discussion b/c an asymptomatic wolf virus would result in a werewolf who couldn't TF. Anyway, I just mentioned that as an exception.

Ultimately, it all boils down to this: I think it is scientifically more plausible for the werewolves to derive their coat color from their human hair, not from a virus. Plus, the wolves would have a greater potential to be more appealing to look at (an actor or actress's hair can be almost any color), so the audience would like it better. With the exceptions of white and grey on young wolves, almost any color can be utilized. And if you apply the idea that someone else had, of having some blondes resulting in white wolves, then that takes care of white. The only color left out is grey (and only for young wolves), but I don't think that an audience is gonna be disappointed about the lack of grey. Silver would be pretty, but I'm gonna wager that for realism's sake no grey wolf would have shining fur. Overall, I think audiences would like the human hair = wolf fur method better, becuase the potential for cooling looking wolves is nearly endless. And looks count for quite a lot.

Excelsia wrote:Ok, but why would the code in the virus for fur color change? I can see why some minute detail would change, but I can't see why the symptoms would.

That's just the part of the the genetic coding that got changed. It might have hit the genes that control height or regeneration on anoter copy of the virus There isn't any logic or reason behind a mutation, it's just pure randomness.

Take your cold example. Sure, there may be hundreds of strands of common cold, but for the most part they all yield the same symptoms, i.e. runny nose etc. The werewolf's alternate forms are a 'symptom' of the virus. In most viruses (I said most) the symptoms stay pretty much the same, so I see no reason why the symptoms of the wolf virus wouldn't stay the same. Therefore I see no reason why fur color (as a symptom of the virus) would change.

Most of the symptons of a cold (runny nose, fever, etc) is out body's respons to the cold virus, and not the cold itself. You walk around for several days with the virus without having any symptoms. Usually it's the protien coat that changes, fooling your immune system.

Ultimately, it all boils down to this: I think it is scientifically more plausible for the werewolves to derive their coat color from their human hair, not from a virus.

So do I. I'm just playing devi's advocate here. Someone might want their werewolves to get coat color from bite, and not from their human hair color.

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote:

Ultimately, it all boils down to this: I think it is scientifically more plausible for the werewolves to derive their coat color from their human hair, not from a virus.

So do I. I'm just playing devi's advocate here. Someone might want their werewolves to get coat color from bite, and not from their human hair color.

Well, I am glad that you agree with me. I was quite worried for a moment. I think most people are in favor of the hair color idea, and I hope the directors will take notice.

Excelsia wrote:

Lupin wrote:

Excelsia wrote:

Ultimately, it all boils down to this: I think it is scientifically more plausible for the werewolves to derive their coat color from their human hair, not from a virus.

So do I. I'm just playing devi's advocate here. Someone might want their werewolves to get coat color from bite, and not from their human hair color.

Well, I am glad that you agree with me. I was quite worried for a moment. I think most people are in favor of the hair color idea, and I hope the directors will take notice.

Oh no, sometimes I'll debate positions that I don't necessarily believe in, not because I want to aruge, but just to explore the idea. In all honesty I can see three posibilities.

A) Fur color comes from human hair color.
2) The hair of the dog that bit ya'
B) A combination of A) and 2).

Like I said, I perefer A).

I do that occasionally. Btw, what's up with A, 2, and B? Lol

just please please plleeeaasee not all brown!! those always look like bears!

What Mafia wrote:just please please plleeeaasee not all brown!! those always look like bears!

I second that.

I'll third that one. I like hair idea too. That's how I always thought they got their pelt colour. The only thing I can say for white fur is what if you're albino? You'd have white fur (and pink eyes, lol. that'd be totally sneaky: "Hey! That werewolf has pink eyes! You don't think it's Albino Bob do you?" "No way. He's only albino in town, but it must be some other albino.") Or you could have really blond hair... What about thin hair? (sorry if this is annoying you guys) If I understand all this correctly, would a stocky built person become a stocky werewolf? If that's right, and if we play by this hair-colour/pelt-colour thing, what about thin hair? I know that probably no one in this film will have thinning hair or be balding, but.... Or maybe they don't get thinning hair or go bald.... Like when you pet a dog or a cat and you get piles of hair off it and it's still freaking hairy- furred creatures, unless something's wrong, don't seem to bald. I'm hoping I didn't mess up anything (gestalt form "mimics" human form). But yes, I think hair colour determines pelt colour

Kavik wrote:

Reigning Fyre wrote:

Kavik wrote:You found a grey chest hair on your 15th B-Day?

Does it count when you put gray hair into your head? I dye my hair with silver/white blonde streaks...

I reckon you'd have to retreat your hair as a werewolf, unless as a werewolf you have these streaks naturally, and you like them so much you are artificially reproducing them when in human form.

Probably! The hair stylists would love that! So much to blow dry...::shudders:: Thanks for welcoming me! I feel special! =^-^=

White fur doesn't nessecariyl come from albinism (sp).

Someone could be a Platnium blond. Even white furred wolves look slightly yellow next to an all-white substance like snow. ;) *chuckles* Not to mention an albino would make th ewerewolf's eyes pipnk and their extremitys pale ( pink noese, pink foot pads ).

White wolves have black points typically.

OOOooooooorr..,

Because the pelt color is based on ( or so I believe ) hair color, then there are no true white werewolves.., unless one is an Elder, or an Old Foggy. *chuckles*