The Big Picture

[Vilkacis]

I would like this thread to be somewhere you can post (in a central place) a nice, but somewhat comprehensive, summary of what you believe werewolves should be. We have plenty of places where you can state your view on specific topics, but no good place to put it all together.

One thing that I would like to make clear, though, is that I do not wish to see criticisms, arguments, or in-depth discussion in this particular thread. Do that elsewhere -- this thread is not meant for persuasion. Please also keep off-topic banter to a minimum (a little bit is OK).

I understand that if you're anything like me, there are many different types of werewolf that you would be happy with. I would definitely like to encourage the exploration of these different views. Please put each different type in it's own post, though, for clarity.

Also, to keep things concise, if you need to add, change, or clarify anything from a previous post you made, I would prefer that you edit the old post rather than making a new one.




Some example types would be:

* What would a real-world werewolf be like?
* An evil or demonic werewolf?
* How could the slobbering beast archetype be improved?
* What kind of werewolf would I like to see best in a movie?
* What should werewolves be like in a world where magic or superpowers are common?
* What about a futuristic or sci-fi setting?
* What's your ideal werewolf like?
etc.

It's alright if they overlap.




To facilitate this process, here are some issues for consideration:

Are werewolves good or evil?
Is it a gift or a curse?
How is it spread?
What do they eat?
Do they have tails?
Are they bloodlusty?
What about the moon?
What about silver?
What about water?
Gender issues?
Regeneration?
Degree of shapeshifting ability?
How painful is shifting?
What forms can they take?
How long do they naturally live?
What colors do they see?
How well can they see in low-light situations?
How high can the jump?
How much fur do they have?
How do they fit in with the natural world?
How beast-like are they in appearance?
How irritable are they?
How big should they be?
How strong?
How agile?
How in-control of themselves are they?
How intelligent?
In what ways can they communicate?
What stances (Digitigrade vs. plantigrade, bipedal vs. all fours)?
How should the 'virus' work?
Offspring?
Group dynamics?
Should they be thin?
Emotion?
Fur color?
When do they first shift?
How long after being bitten until they shift?
Should there be other were-creatures?
If so, how would they react to each other?
How do they interact with vampires?
Do they have sports / play?
Sounds during shifting?
Special powers?
Claws?
Best kind of transformation scene?
How does shifting work?
How tall?
How do other animals react around them?
Old age?
Illness?
Are there telltale signs in human form?
Should they wear clothes?
Jewelry?
Culture?
Religion?
Hunting?
How do they fight?
Psychological issues?
Mating?
Do they leave a mess after shifting?
Howling?
Whiskers?
Revert after death?
Aptitude for magic?
How fast can transformation occur?
Do they remember what they do in werewolf form?
Can they remember human things when in werewolf form?
Can music soothe the savage beast?
Are all werewolves alike?
Do they share traits with the one that bit them?
Interaction with real wolves?


EDIT 1:
Muscles?
Hands/Feet/Paws?
Head?
Hair retention?
Science?
Losing control?
Senses?
Wagging tails?
Body language?
Aesthetics?
What happens to the tail after shifting to human?
Shifting in the womb?
Need to eat before shifting?
Can the virus ever go away or be cured?


And anything else you can think of.




EDIT 1:

Let me clarify the rules a bit:

1) This is not a thread for agreement, disagreement, discussion, debate, argument, criticism, non-rhetorical questions, or off-topic banter.

There are other places for that.

2) As a general rule, do not quote or refer to another person's opinion post.

You may, for example, simply say, "That's neat!" or, "I never thought of that!" but keep these comments simple and positive -- they should not facilitate a response from anyone else.

3) To keep things nice, neat, and categorized, please put different types of werewolves in different posts.

Unless you have a decent reason to do so, please do not, for example, talk about real, cinematic, and ideal werewolves all in one post :/

4) To keep things concise, if you want to add, change, or clarify something from a previous post, please edit your post rather than making a new one.

Someone shouldn't have to read through the entire thread getting random bits and pieces of your opinions on cinematic werewolves, for example. Please keep them all in one place.

-- Vilkacis

[Vuldari]

...it usually seems best to keep all of these different topics in their own, dedicated threads, but I am intrigured to see what will come out of this "compilation" topic. This should be good.

I am not in the right train of thought to summarise my various visions of how a werewolf should/could be interpereted right now, so I have nothing else to add...yet.

...sorry...

[Figarou]

Ummm...whats wrong with the "Werewolf final facts" section?




Most of the stuff you listed has already been answered in this section.
http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=348

[Vilkacis]

Ummm...whats wrong with the "Werewolf final facts" section?

Most of the stuff you listed has already been answered in this section.
http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=348

That is a single, majority view on several different subjects (it's also specific to Freeborn). Frankly, I doubt there's a single one of us who agrees with every single one of those points. I dislike nearly 1/5 of the points made in that thread outright, and the others change depending on what viewpoint I'm taking. Realistic? Cinematic? Ideal?

My thread is NOT meant to find a consensus werewolf. I made it so that each individual person can explore what they like and dislike in different situations. "What makes me happy?" Not, "What will make most people happy."

I don't really see how my thread and the one you mentioned have much in common.

(I'm going to be busy today, but I'll try to make a good post here tonight.)

-- Vilkacis

[Figarou]

Ummm...whats wrong with the "Werewolf final facts" section?

Most of the stuff you listed has already been answered in this section.
http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=348

That is a single, majority view on several different subjects (it's also specific to Freeborn). Frankly, I doubt there's a single one of us who agrees with every single one of those points. I dislike nearly 1/5 of the points made in that thread outright, and the others change depending on what viewpoint I'm taking. Realistic? Cinematic? Ideal?

My thread is NOT meant to find a consensus werewolf. I made it so that each individual person can explore what they like and dislike in different situations. "What makes me happy?" Not, "What will make most people happy."

I don't really see how my thread and the one you mentioned have much in common.

(I'm going to be busy today, but I'll try to make a good post here tonight.)

-- Vilkacis

Hmmmmm.....are you trying to find a "werewolf in general?"



Well, 1st of all, I'm not good at doing that. If I wanted to create a werewolf character for my book or film, I'm not going to be as good as one who studied up on werewolves.

Heck, whats there to study on? I won't be studying the werewolves themselves. Just other peoples views on them. Werewolves don't exist.


Also, that person who creates the werewolf WILL do some changes to fit his/her needs. He may not want his character to be affected by the moon. Maybe they want it to climb walls. Or be a mindless beast in werewolf/gestalt form. They could say magic created it and not a bite from another werewolf.

Oh....I read here that Goldenwolf's werewolves has a gland in the mouth simular to a snake. That gland is what turns a regular human to a werewolf from a bite. This way, Goldenwolf's werewolf character can decide if that human is worth having as a werewolf. I never heard of that until I read up on it. Do werewolves really have that gland?


Once you gathered all the information you need, what are you going to do with it?

[Figarou]

Just so you know...I'm not arguing.

I can take one of those questions and have several different answers.


Take this one for example.

How should the 'virus' work?

Someone may want an instant werewolf. You're bit, and a few minutes later, you're a werewolf.

People will say that its to fast. It takes time for the virus to take over the host. How long? It depends on the person creating the character. Its tradition that by the next full moon, he is a werewolf. Ok, what if the person was bit 3 days before the full moon? What then?


Also, who does the shifting? The virus itself? Or does the werewolf have control of the virus? Maybe the werewolf itself is a virus. A big fur covered virus.

I made it so that each individual person can explore what they like and dislike in different situations. "What makes me happy?" Not, "What will make most people happy."

Sure, I'll be happy with my werewolf creation. Just like ABrownrigg and Silver is happy with thiers. But will other people be happy of my or ABrownrigg's creation? No. You said yourself you don't like 1/5 of the points made with thier werewolves.

[Vilkacis]

Hmmmmm.....are you trying to find a "werewolf in general?"

Emphatically no!

What I want is exactly the opposite: I want to see tons of specialized, not general, werewolves. Frankly, the point is that all of us want and like different things, and those things are going to change depending on the situation. What do YOU like in different situations?

That's the point.

Well, 1st of all, I'm not good at doing that. If I wanted to create a werewolf character for my book or film, I'm not going to be as good as one who studied up on werewolves.

This is not mandatory, or anything :/

I thought it would be fun.


I don't care if your views aren't expressed as well as someone else's. If that were a limiting factor, no one would ever do anything, because there's always someone else who does something better, in one way or another.

Heck, whats there to study on? I won't be studying the werewolves themselves. Just other peoples views on them. Werewolves don't exist.

Also, that person who creates the werewolf WILL do some changes to fit his/her needs. He may not want his character to be affected by the moon. Maybe they want it to climb walls. Or be a mindless beast in werewolf/gestalt form. They could say magic created it and not a bite from another werewolf.

These are exactly the things I want to see and encourage.

Oh....I read here that Goldenwolf's werewolves has a gland in the mouth simular to a snake. That gland is what turns a regular human to a werewolf from a bite. This way, Goldenwolf's werewolf character can decide if that human is worth having as a werewolf. I never heard of that until I read up on it. Do werewolves really have that gland?

Would werewolves really have that? Who cares? It's an interesting and fun idea!

Once you gathered all the information you need, what are you going to do with it?

I have no plans for it. I will simply enjoy reading it as people post.

Just so you know...I'm not arguing.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were. I just think you're not quite grasping what I'm trying to do here.

I can take one of those questions and have several different answers.


Take this one for example.

How should the 'virus' work?

Someone may want an instant werewolf. You're bit, and a few minutes later, you're a werewolf.

People will say that its to fast. It takes time for the virus to take over the host. How long? It depends on the person creating the character. Its tradition that by the next full moon, he is a werewolf. Ok, what if the person was bit 3 days before the full moon? What then?


Also, who does the shifting? The virus itself? Or does the werewolf have control of the virus? Maybe the werewolf itself is a virus. A big fur covered virus.

These are all exactly the kinds of things I want to see! That's the whole point of this thread. What are the different and diverse things each of us likes?

I don't want criticism in this thread.
I don't want persuasion.
We're not trying to come to a conclusion or agree on anything.
There's nothing here to discuss.

There's just plain and simple variety.

I made it so that each individual person can explore what they like and dislike in different situations. "What makes me happy?" Not, "What will make most people happy."

Sure, I'll be happy with my werewolf creation. Just like ABrownrigg and Silver is happy with thiers. But will other people be happy of my or ABrownrigg's creation? No. You said yourself you don't like 1/5 of the points made with thier werewolves.

That's not the point. I want people to be able to post what they like, not what makes you or me or other people happy.




This is an experiment of sorts. If I don't see much interest, I'll unsticky it. But what I'm hoping for is a place where anyone can freely speak their mind (especially newcomers) without worrying that people are going to argue about it or shoot it down. This is a place of pure opinion.

-- Vilkacis

[Vilkacis]

Here's my idea of what a real-world, scientifically-accurate werewolf would entail:

(Note: Whether you want to call this a 'true werewolf' or not is up to you.)

Werewolves are neither intrinsically good or evil, any more than humans. Or, to put it differently, they have natural aspects of both good and evil to struggle with. You might be able to deduce from this that I would prefer them to be sentient and intelligent. I don't think I would be happy with a mere animal in werewolf form; although, I the idea has some virtues. I prefer the free will route.

Lycanthropy, then, would be neither a gift nor a curse, but whatever one makes of it. Even though they would have certain aspects (maybe even a great number of them) that we would consider better than human, they, having lived with them all their lives and not having experienced any different, would take them for granted. Just as us humans take the many, many wonderful things we are capable of for granted.

In this sense, they would have their own fantasies, wants, desires... It would be natural, I think, for them to want, obtain, and become bored just as we do. No matter what they had, they would always want more, just as humans are so inclined. Overall, they would not be any more or less happy than we are. Maybe they look up at the sky and fantasize of flight and dragons.

Since we are discussing something that might be possible (although fantastically so) in the real world, things like regeneration and shapeshifting are a big no-no. They would be normal flesh and blood. Silver, also, would be no more toxic than it is to humans. Lycanthropy cannot be spread -- you have to be born one.

I'm not going to go into too much detail about the physical appearance, since it would mostly be artistic preference:

In size, they could average anywhere from human-size to one or two feet bigger.

They would have wolf-like heads.

They would be able to see better in the dark than humans, but might not be able to distinguish as many colors.

They would have a full digitigrade stance, and be structured as to allow running on all fours as well as on two legs (I'm not convinced that this would require any kind of shifting, nor that they would appear too stunted). Fingers would be shorter and significantly more sturdy in regards to human proportion (they would also be able to flex backward somewhat more). The palm would be elongated, with pads on the fingers and on the palm near the base of the fingers (but not near the wrist). When walking on all fours, the palm is held upright so that the thumb is not in any danger from the ground. Contact with the ground occurs on the pads. The back legs would have wider feet/paws so as to facilitate balance when standing on two legs.

Realistically, their bodies would have much the same distribution of fur as you might find on a wolf. Because they have fur, they would not be inclined to wear much as far as clothes go. Jewelry and such that would not fall off while active would be favored.

They would have tails, of course. I like tails :3

Claws are good, too. They may be kept short so as not to interfere with running. They may also be sharpened intentionally as well.

As far as gender goes, it would be the standard male and female. Males, like humans, would tend more toward physical strength than females. Females, on the other hand, would have more upper-body strength than their human counterpart because of the ability to travel on all fours. Males would have a sheath to facilitate running on all fours. Females, likewise, would have considerably smaller breasts. Children would be born one or two at a time.

They wouldn't live any longer than humans in the same situations. They might be slightly more inclined toward health. Hence, they might tend to be a bit stronger than the average human.

They would have their own culture. Languages would be developed, but not human ones. Due to the greatly differing mouth and vocal structures, many human sounds might be extremely difficult, if not impossible to emulate -- and vice-versa. If humans and werewolves exist in the same world, systems might be developed to get around this, for those inclined to learn them (think a standard for substituting impossible sounds for possible ones).

Tail-wagging is probably something that would become looked down upon as childish, or, at least, unrespectable. Howling would be much the same, except in certain situations (when a loved-one dies, for example). An exception might be if howling developed into a form of long-distance communication -- then it would be a tool.

When it comes to fighting, hand structure would make punching mostly ineffective -- the pads would get in the way of making a proper fist, and would act to cushion the blow. Furthermore, there would be a double layer of fur to contend with. That's not to say ways couldn't be developed to get around this, but I think punching-type martial arts would be supplemented with katar-type weapons.

Leg structure, as I imagine it, would make kicking very difficult as well. Limited side-to-side mobility would make side kicks and roundhouse kicks nearly impossible. Front kicks might work, after a fashion, but, again, the pads and fur would cushion the blow.

In both cases, claws would be more likely to be used. However, fur would likely act as pretty good protection in most places. Thus, the best candidates for clawed attacks would be the belly area and the eyes. Even so, neither is likely to result in a fatal wound, but may turn the tide in your favor.

The best way to finish off an opponent would be by ripping out their throat with your teeth. However, this is a risky maneuver, as it requires putting your head far into the danger zone, risking a blinding wound. Thus, it would be more likely to occur when grappling or when the opponent is severely weakened.




I think that exhausts just about everything I can think to say on this subject.

-- Vilkacis

[Vilkacis]

Here's just a general rundown of my thoughts on cinematic werewolves:

Cinematically, I would put more emphasis on aesthetics than I would on realism. Realism is good to a degree, but it should never come to a point where they are boring or ugly. They should be an impressive sight to see. Just as humans are glorified and 'larger than life' in the movies, so should be werewolves.

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't mind seeing scientifically-accurate werewolves, but I'd rather them be realistic in a book and impressive in a movie.

I don't really care for horror (although some horror-like aspects are OK), and slasher-type films don't interest me overly much, either.

I'm utterly tired of big, powerful, mindless killing machines. Even Van Helsing, which I enjoyed greatly, fell into this trap.

Why can't we have for werewolves what Draco did for dragons? Not the exact same thing, but I'd like to see a werewolf that's smart, maybe even wise, and wonderful to behold. Something, perhaps, that's better than we imagined. Something that's just... cool.

That's just one thing that I'd like to see sometime. There are many, many things that would make me happy in regards to a werewolf movie, but none of them involve big, dumb beasts.




These are the most important things to me in a werewolf movie:

1) Story!!!
2) Intelligence and free-will (or, at least, no dumb, slobbering beast)
3) Aethetically pleasing (that means wolf-like, not beast/monster-like)

To me, the story trumps all. Although it's nice, on occasion, to take a specific type of werewolf and build a movie around it, I think it would be better to just make a good story that happens to have werewolves in it. Don't make a werewolf movie, make a movie with werewolves.

In this sense, I think werewolves ought to be what best fits in with the story. For example, Ladyhawke is one of my all-time favorite movies.

Maybe the reason I don't care for monsterous werewolves is that I don't really care for the types of stories they tend to appear in.

The way I see it, a movie that is built around werewolves is greatly at risk. People who don't care about the werewolves in your movie won't care for the story you've built around them either.

But if you give them a good story, that has werewolves in it, you're all set. Even if they don't care for the werewolves, if they love the story, it won't matter much. In this case, the werewolves shouldn't stand out -- they should belong perfectly.

Again, I point out Ladyhawke. As far as werewolves go, that kind is very, very far from what I tend to prefer. However, the story was excellent and he fit in perfectly. I absolutely love the movie, and it doesn't bother me at all that the werewolf wasn't what I might have liked, because it was the best kind for the story. There were very good reasons for him to be exactly as he was.

Suffice it to say, it should be the story that makes or breaks the movie, not the werewolves.

Now, even with that being said, if there is enough room for it in the story, there are certain preferences I have. Much as I mentioned above, I prefer something intelligent and in-control over something stupid, slobbering, and uncontrollably bloodthirsty; I prefer something that is aesthetically pleasing over something monsterous.

I think, really, all I want is a movie where the werewolf is NOT a monster (in the literal sense of the word). All else is secondary.




EDIT 1: Added/changed a bunch of stuff.

-- Vilkacis

[Vilkacis]

[Vilkacis]

(Obviously, I don't expect other people to put the same kind of thought, detail, and effort into this as I do.)


-- Vilkacis

[Renorei]

Well, I'll add a few things and then add more later. These are my thoughts for a cinematic werewolf.

Signs of Lycanthropy in Human Form

None whatsoever, except looking healthier and having more energy. They will not be hairy, and they will not under any circumstances have unibrows. Frankly, I don't see why that would be logical, especially considering the fact that all of the rest of the wolf or gestalt form's fur goes away, so why would eyebrow hair stay? Also, I'm opposed to it because of aesthetics.


Weight Gain from shifting

They would gain weight, because of added muscle, and because they are getting larger, when shifting to the gestalt form. However, they would be losing fat as well, so the weight gain wouldn't be a massive one.


Size

Must be taller than humans. If those things shrink, I'm walking out of the theater. Personally, I would prefer the average werewolf to be around 7 feet. I know exactly how tall 7 feet is, in case anyone was wondering. I can easily visualize it, and have already.




Muscles

There muscles would enlarge and become more defined. Not bodybuilder huge, but still bigger in terms of muscles than they were before.



Head

Not even remotely human, except the eyes. Yet not purely wolven, either. I'd like something that is a blend of wolf and some awesome canine that doesn't exist. Perhaps something like Goldenwolf's Kierrn. Something that definitely suggests wolf very loudly, but looks fiercer and more powerful.


Fur

The fur of a werewolf would reflect the hair of the human from which it came. The hair on a human's head would determine the fur of that particular part of the wolf. Example, I would have reddish gold head and mane, and most of the rest of my fur would be lighter, but still reddish-gold. The only exception would be hair in the groin region, since it is generally darker than the rest of a human's hair. I would say that the hair in the groin region would probably be the color of most of the rest of the body. Having one area on a werewolf be darker than the rest would look weird, in my opinion.


Hair Retention

Hair from the human form would be retained in the gestalt form. The only area in which this would be visible, however, would be on the head, since werewolf fur would cover up the rest of it. I like the idea of human characters with long hair ending up with manes in the gestalt form. I think that would be really cool looking, and I would want one if I became a werewolf.


Level of Fur Coverage

No skin. I want to see them completely covered in fur. I've seen plenty werewolf movies in which skin was used in the gestalt form, and it never works. To me, they all look ugly. I want a completely furry (though not shaggy) werewolf.


Feet/Paws

I don't have much to say about this. I like big feet. I want their feet to get substantially bigger than when they are in human form. I don't really care that much about the rest of the details about their hands and paws. If the rest of the body increases in size, the hands should increase as well, since they would look silly if they didn't. So, basically all I have to say on this is that hands and feet would get bigger in gestalt.


Claws

Claws would be large. Not ridiculously large, but still large. They would also be very sharp, even though most canine claws aren't. The reason would be because each time they become gestalt, the claws have to regrow. So, basically, it's a new set of claws each time. The claws haven't had time to wear down yet, if they recently TFed. Therefore, the claws would be brand new and thus sharp. (Kinda like a puppy's claws. If you've ever been clawed by a puppy, you'll know they're sharp.)


Sounds

They can make all wolf sounds, and can make some rudimentary human sounds. Personally, I think they should still be able to talk in gestalt, even though it would be difficult. I also think they should have a whole new set of sounds that comes only from the strange blending of wolf and human. I think werewolves (in gestalt) should have a distinct sound that is neither human or wolf, but an eerie blend of both. It could be used as a dramatic tool in the movie.


Breasts

Small, non-bouncy, not distracting at all, covered in fur. Barely enough of a swelling to hint at their femaleness.


Male/Female differences

Males would obviously be stronger than females, however I don't think females should look weak by any means. As I put it in another thread, I don't think anyone should ever be able to look at a male and female gestalt standing together and say "Oh wow, he could so easily beat her up." Females should look strong, fierce, and powerful, but in a feminine way. Also, if males are going to be stronger, I'd like it if females had some sort of bonus, to make male and female fights more fair. Perhaps they could be faster or more agile.


Speed and Strength

I'd say they'd be about as fast as an olympic runner and as strong as an olympic weightlifter. I don't give a damn if that's illogical or not.


Silver and the Moon

No. Not at all. The only exception I would make would be that perhaps werewolves are more jittery or excited around the moon, but it certainly can't force them to transform.


Children

I think the 'can't TF until puberty' argument is crap. Realistically, that makes very little sense to me. I think that children would be able to TF also. It wouldn't traumatize them, or damage their bodies. That is illogical. If anything, they would handle it better than a newly bitten adult.


Virus

It's a virus. It isn't airborne, and doesn't live on dry surfaces. It spreads through sex and biting and maybe a couple of other ways. I don't care so much how it spreads, but mainly how it doesn't spread, which I mentioned earlier.


The Wolf Form

Frankly the wolf form doesn't interest me at all. I think gestalt is much cooler. Nonetheless, I would say that the wolf form would be larger, faster, and stronger than an average wolf, but not ridiculously so. A studier of wolves would look at them and go, "WOW! That is a huge wolf!" not "Oh my, there's no way that is a wolf. It's too big". So in other words, not so big as to be unbelievable.


Gestalt Vs. Human Battle

Honestly, I don't think a human would stand much chance. I'm not going to say that a human couldn't possibly win, but their chances are laughable. Only a fool with a deathwish would challenge a werewolf to a battle. I think that an odd stroke of luck would be a far more likely culprit to human victory than the ability of said human, but nonetheless I will not deny the ridiculously unlikely possibility. Let me state however, that I don't really want to see a werewolf and human fighting in a movie. To me, that'd be like pitting a really weak foe against a strong one, and thus, boring and unfair. If the werewolf won, I would say, "No surprise", but if the human won, I would criticize the movie for being ridiculous. I'd rather see werewolf vs. werewolf battles, since that is fair, and thus, interesting.


Virus Staying / Going Away

In the real world, viruses are incurable. Once you get it, you've got it for the rest of your life. I think the werewolf virus would be the same way.


Possibility of My Werewolf Being Real

Not a chance. I've realized that my werewolves are pretty much scientifically impossible, but I've also realized that I don't care about that anymore. I want what I think looks good, and also what I would want to be like if I were a werewolf. But, I'd also like to mention that nobody's werewolf is possible, so I don't think mine is really that big of a stretch.


Illness, Injury, Age affecting Shifting

The only thing that I think could ever stop you from shifting permanently would be death, or becoming braindead, or being in a coma, etc. I think illness, injury, and age will affect shifting, but as long as a werewolf is alive, I think it should be able to shift. Shifting may grow harder with age, injury, or illness, but I don't think shifting should ever be something that a werewolf is no longer capable of.


Losing Control

I think most werewolves would never lose control. However, I think that on occasion, some of them would. Perhaps the loss of control could be catalyzed by emotional distress or mental illness. Anyway, I think that some werewolves have to lose control every now and then, or else there would never have been all those werewolf legends, of werewolves eating people. No werewolf who was in control of his actions would do that, so therefore, somebody had to lose control at some point.


Life Span

Longer than the average human, but not so long as to arouse suspicion. 120 I think could be an average lifespan.


Health

Overall, they would be healthier than humans. They would hardly ever get sick.


Regeneration and Healing

They would heal much faster than the average human. I don't know exactly how much faster, but definitely a lot faster.


Painful TF

I am not in favor of this. I think it is more logical that the body would release hella endorphins and adrenaline during a TF, and thus they would actually enjoy it, and be energized afterwards.


The Three Forms

Gestalt is not the midstage between human and wolf. You can go straight to wolf if you want, and straight back to human. They are all three separate forms, and you can choose which one you want to use without going through another one.



Senses

Awesome. Vision would be a little less colorful, but they would be able to detect movement better.


Tails

Yes.

I think a tail should exist in the movie gestalts for two reasons:

1. Body language

Perhaps not wagging, but raising the tail when danger is near or tucking it under when the werewolf is frightened.

2. It looks good

As I said in my previous post, I care more about what looks good than about what's accurate, at least from a movie perspective. I don't want to see some furry human a** on the gestalt form, so I think a tail is needed to more or less hide that, and also because tails are cool.


Tail Retention

As far as what happens to the tail, my personal preference is that it would be absorbed into the body. If I was a werewolf and I retained my tail in human form, I could never go to the beach without raising suspicions and eyebrows. Tail retention, or lack thereof, is not really a big issue for me however.



Digitrade Feet

Very Yes.


Dead Werewolves

If a werewolf dies in gestalt form, I think his body should revert back to human. Also, if a part of his body is severed, it should revert to human. If he is in wolf or human form, his body/body parts should not change when he dies. The reason I feel this way is because finding dead humans or dead wolves or their body parts is not terribly unusual, but finding the hand of a creature that resembles both man and wolf has never happened before. Therefore it should never happen in the future, if it hasn't already happened. So that is why I think the body or body parts should TF on their own. I don't know what would cause them to change, but it is logical that they would since nobody has ever found a gestalt foot.


The Word Gestalt

Don't like it anymore. By using this word in Freeborn, this will forever change the meaning of the word 'gestalt'. We should make up a new word, not change the meaning of a word that has already been around a while.


My Overall Feelings About Werewolves

I care about science. I really do. Heck, I used to be a biology major. But when it comes to a movie about werewolves, I think science should take a backseat to aesthetics. Most moviegoers don't care about scientific accuracy, they care about stuff that looks cool. This can easily be observed by looking at some of the more popular movies in recent years. They're not scientifically accurate in the least, but moviegoers love them because they have cool-looking characters and a good plot. That is what I want from a werewolf movie. Characters that look cool and are actively involved in an engrossing plot. Screw all that 'conservation of matter' stuff. It's physically impossible to change from a human to a bipedal wolf-like creature anyway, why the hell are we arguing about the physics? I don't care if it's unlikely that a creature could be both really fast and really strong. I honestly don't care at all. IMO, they should be both really strong and really fast anyway. And, judging from some recent successful movies, most moviegoers agree. Ultimately, from a movie standpoint, aesthetics is king. Science shouldn't be completely thrown out the window (i.e. thiry foot tall werewolves that shoot laser beams from their eyes), but should definitely move back a few seats in the car.

I agree with what you said about the Freeborn werewolves being like what Draco was for dragons. They should be fierce, intimidating, intelligent, and magnificent.

Also, many of my opinions about werewolves are based on what I would want to be like if I was one. I wouldn't want to be 'scientifically accurate'. I would want to be awesome. I think that is definitely going to be paramount in moviegoers thoughts as they watch Freeborn. "Is this what I would want to be like if I was a werewolf?"

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Enjoy.



EDIT: Alright, I think I've combined all my thoughts into one post. I will continue editing this post of mine as I see fit.

[Vuldari]

[Figarou]

Don't worry, I didn't think you were. I just think you're not quite grasping what I'm trying to do here.

oh, I know what you're trying to do. If I had the time, I could write a super long post about what I want a werewolf should be. But I'm a bit upset at several things right now. So I don't feel like doing it right away.




Ok, tails was mentioned.

They would have tails, of course. I like tails :3

So do I. I love tails!!

Tail-wagging is probably something that would become looked down upon as childish, or, at least, unrespectable.

Hey!! I love wagging tails!! Whats wrong with having a werewolf wag its tail?

Tails

yes.

Hmmm...I say yes also.

Now, I want to get a clear understanding about something. So PLEASE help me out on this.


I want you guys to explain the benefit of having the tail. In wolf form and in Gestalt. Tell me why you think a tail is needed.


You see, some people say the tail is used as a counter weight so the Gestalt werewolf can stand upright.

HUH? Is that why a gestalt werewolf needs a tail? I know a four legged animal uses the tail for balance when running at high speeds on all fours. But for balance while standing on 2 legs? I think not!!!


To me....a tail can also be used as communication in both gestalt and wolf forms . Since the werewolf has intelligence, it can use the tail as a way to send a secret signal. 2 wags could mean "All clear." A raised tail could mean danger is nearby. It all depends on what the werewolves agree upon.

Also tell me what you think happens to the tail when the werewolf reverts to human form. I can't decide if the tail should fall off, gets pulled back in the body, or is still there even in human form. I'm going more towards "still there in human form."


I also think tails are good for other things as well.

[Vilkacis]

Ok, tails was mentioned.

They would have tails, of course. I like tails :3

So do I. I love tails!!

Tail-wagging is probably something that would become looked down upon as childish, or, at least, unrespectable.

Hey!! [...] Whats wrong with having a werewolf wag its tail?

Tails

yes.

Hmmm...I say yes also.

Now, I want to get a clear understanding about something. So PLEASE help me out on this.

I want you guys to explain the benefit of having the tail. In wolf form and in Gestalt. Tell me why you think a tail is needed.

You see, some people say the tail is used as a counter weight so the Gestalt werewolf can stand upright.

HUH? Is that why a gestalt werewolf needs a tail? I know a four legged animal uses the tail for balance when running at high speeds on all fours. But for balance while standing on 2 legs? I think not!!!

Also tell me what you think happens to the tail when the werewolf reverts to human form.

I can't say as to whether or not you understand what I'm trying to do, because I couldn't possibly know what's you do and don't understand.

But I can say that all of the things above are the exact things that I said I didn't want in this thread.

This is not a thread about agreement.
This is not a thread about questioning someone else's opinion.
This is not a thread for discussion or debate.

(There are other places for people to do that.)

I love wagging tails!!

I can't decide if the tail should fall off, gets pulled back in the body, or is still there even in human form. I'm going more towards "still there in human form."

To me....a tail can also be used as communication in both gestalt and wolf forms . Since the werewolf has intelligence, it can use the tail as a way to send a secret signal. 2 wags could mean "All clear." A raised tail could mean danger is nearby. It all depends on what the werewolves agree upon.

I also think tails are good for other things as well.

Now, these things, on the other hand, are exactly the kind of thing I want to see.




Anyway, I hope it wasn't anything I did or said that made you upset, because I wasn't trying to. I know I can be overbearing at times without meaning it. If it was something I did, feel free to send me a PM if you want, so that we can try to resolve the issue.

Sorry,


-- Vilkacis

[Vilkacis]

Also, nobody need write super-long posts here. It can be as simple as a single sentence. Maybe all someone wants to say is "No more bloodthirsty werewolves." That's good enough.

-- Vilkacis

[Vuldari]

I would like to help clarify the purpose of this thread (as I understand it).


DO NOT respond to anyone elses posts.
Do not quote them. Do not word your opinions in disagreement with others here. Just share your own personal opinion and preferences as if none other exist.

This is the place to say what you really want to see, regardless what anyone else thinks.

All limits and restrictions are lifted here. Just share with us whatever YOU think would make a really cool werewolf.

[Prowler]

In my opinion the werewolf should be incontrol of it's self unless the person was unstable. It doesn't make sence to me why a peacefull person should suddenly want to kill everything just because they now have a wolf like body.

[outwarddoodles]

My idea of a real werewolf may be plausible, though no one loves it very much. I think they would somehow obtain the new DNA that becomes dominate over their human genes. Slowly changing the body into a wolf, unfontually changing into a wolf would take as long as it takes for a human to grow and change shape, and there would be no 'uber wolf' details, so it would be exactly a wolf.

If the virus were real I'd imagine the virus would be copied of it self, the posibility of them mutated with some of the more dominant human genes, even though that doesn't mean what changes would be something like hair color, that could be more like something such as lenth fo fingers, color of eyes, heart, etc. Shifting would take genes becoming dominant or recessive over the other, so unless somehow that can be regulated, I fear the genes may get mixed up different things of both forms would get mixed up.

- So my idea is 'lame', yes, I agree. Though in my ideal wolf, The shifting process would be a much quickened version of this, and because during that time no one would gain muscle unless they exercised, I really doubt we'll have a ripped werewolf with as much muslces as posible. I'd imagine the werewolf may be very hungry before shifting, and after, though I just don't lik th eidea that much of gaining too much mass. Though I'm not against it, because infact I think I may very well perfer a werewolf thats nice and fit, becoming a wolf can be a symbol for freedom, who wants to be free in a scrawny little body?

My ideal werewolf as the 'uber wolf' details. such as the skull fitted for a human brain. They would retain human thought between forms, though they may get a little wolven quirks.

What should werewolves be like in a world with magic or superpowers?

No, just shifting powers. Though when I draw I have given my wolfies little quirks with magic, usually together with the moon. Yet I don't give them excessive powers.

What about the moon?

The moon would control their shifting, though they can learn to control it. In the sense of the moon changing it I would say by the full moon, otherwise if the moon did effect werewolves it would be a couple times everyday according to high tides and low tides

With being a gift or curse or good or evil. I'd say that depends alot of the individual's opinion. I'd imagine they may be very hungry from shifting, but not bloodthristy, unless they are mistaken for that. The wolf can eat what ever he wants, whether it be a bunny rotting in the backyard, some White Castles, or a freshly caught human. If they stomach to much they wouldn't be able to shift, that is without expelling the excess food (yes, they'll barf.). Also the food should be digestible to a human, so I don't know if they really should eat that raw beef.

Regeneration?
Degree of shapeshifting ability?
How painful is shifting?
What forms can they take?
How long do they naturally live?

Regeneration? I imagine the the regeneration levels would speed up for the shifting, other than that they'd be a normal human. Now, because the body is capable of doing so I'd imagine for a nasty injury the regeneration can speed up and get working for them again. Otherwise I think regeneration and health wise they're pretty much human. Yet I think they can live longer, though infact it may be shorter, being the fact they die early in shifting. I can imagine an 80 year old werewolf, but not them shifting. So if they do become really old, I imagine because they're body is incapable of shifting it just won't, or just not as much, it's that easy.

Shifting would be pretty quick I sappose. Proablly the body would slowly gain features before shifting, and then a surge of energy where the bones set themselves in new places and change shape. I think things that are naturally quicker growing and changing would finish first. So something like hair, that I'm sure changes faster than bones, would grow and be finished before the bones finish. I'd say they can have human form, wolf for, and a gestalt like form.

How irritable are they?
How intelligent?
In what ways can they communicate?
Group dynamics?
Emotion?

They would have a human mind, so all of those would depend according to that individual. They would act as humans. For communicated, they can't speak in wolf or gestalt like a human, though I have thought the other way around too.

Gender? Fur Color?
'Realisticly' I don't know, in ym world, they would be the same as the human'.

Sorry, I'm tired and absence minded right now, I'll get back to the questions later and edit this post.

Though I'd like to put down a couple questions or me to remeber, or anyone else who would love to answer;
- Can the virus ever go away?
- What do you think the posibility fo your werewolf being real today or becoming real?
- Could illness, injury, or age, afect the degree of shifting?

[Vilkacis]

DO NOT respond to anyone elses posts.

Do not quote them. Do not word your opinions in disagreement with others here. Just share your own personal opinion and preferences as if none other exist.

This is the place to say what you really want to see, regardless what anyone else thinks.

All limits and restrictions are lifted here. Just share with us whatever YOU think would make a really cool werewolf.

Yes

-- Vilkacis

[Vilkacis]

I'd also like to make something clear. If someone raises an issue on a topic that I forgot to mention, I will most certainly state my opinions on it.

Of course!



Just... like I said in the very beginning, if you want to add/change/clarify something you said before, please edit your original post rather than making a new one.

I've no idea right now, for example, if you're still talking about cinematic werewolves, or what... Please don't make people have to read through the entire thread just to get bits and pieces of your opinion.

Simply go back and change your post. And it's OK to post a notice saying you changed something, maybe with a link back to your post, if you want.

-- Vilkacis

[Figarou]

I can't say as to whether or not you understand what I'm trying to do, because I couldn't possibly know what's you do and don't understand.

But I can say that all of the things above are the exact things that I said I didn't want in this thread.

This is not a thread about agreement.
This is not a thread about questioning someone else's opinion.
This is not a thread for discussion or debate.

(There are other places for people to do that.)

Arrggh!!! I said I knew what you was trying to do.




Other people believed the tail was used for other things so I decided to list them. I also wanted to know "WHY" you want the tail on the werewolf.

I didn't want to see...


"Tails. Yes, they need tails."

Anyway, I hope it wasn't anything I did or said that made you upset, because I wasn't trying to. I know I can be overbearing at times without meaning it. If it was something I did, feel free to send me a PM if you want, so that we can try to resolve the issue.

Sorry,


-- Vilkacis

I'm not upset, angry, or pissed off at you. I'm am upset at my cable modem, customers having no allocations where I work, and my boss for changing my schedule.



I'm not going to into detail about my werewolf because my views are simular to the ones above. Just make mine plain and simple.


I like humor when the werewolf is in gestalt form. No...I don't want a or werewolf. Well, maybe a little.


Now excuse me while I search for some werewolves to toss duckies at.


Edit....Oops...found a few errors.

[Renorei]

Ah, I apologize, Vilkacis. I didn't see that part up there where it said that we should edit our original posts. I have edited my first post to include all of the information from the other ones. If anyone wants to delete my additional posts, they can, because I don't know how. I don't see a delete button. Also, can someone explain how I can put a link to my post? I know how to make one for the thread, but not individual posts. And while you're at it, edit this post so it has the link in it, if you wouldn't mind.


Link to my first post: http://www.calypso-blue.com/werewolf/vi ... 5055#45055

[Figarou]

Ah, I apologize, Vilkacis. I didn't see that part up there where it said that we should edit our original posts. I have edited my first post to include all of the information from the other ones. If anyone wants to delete my additional posts, they can, because I don't know how. I don't see a delete button. Also, can someone explain how I can put a link to my post? I know how to make one for the thread, but not individual posts. And while you're at it, edit this post so it has the link in it, if you wouldn't mind.

The delete button is the "circle X" next to "EDIT"


To link to individual posts, see the tiny icon next to Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:21 pm

It looks like this--->

Click on that and it'll give you the URL in your browser.

[Lupin]

The delete button is the "circle X" next to "EDIT"

That dissappears for non-moderators as soon as someone else posts in the thread.